the keys to the 16-year-old. no turning back. >> what el do you have? >> my neighbors are drunk, probably high. and they're out of the back and bemoaning the loss to lsu. >> cater walling? cater walling is going on? >> great. >> it's from an oregon ducks fan. all i can say is sec. "morning joe" starts right now. >> the problem is that this kind of vilification and over-the-top rhetoric closes it door to the possibility of compromise. it undermines democratic deliberation. it prevents learning since after all, why should we listen to a fascist or a socialist or a right wing nut or a left wing nut. it makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down at the same table and hash things out. it robs us of rational and

serious debate, the one we need to have about the very real and very big challenges facing this nation. it questions our culture and it can send signals to the most extreme elements of our society that perhaps violence is a justifiable response. >> you know what? everybody here is going to vote -- if we go back and we keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a pitches out and give america back to america where we belong. >> wait a minute, i'm confused. let me do the math here. >> let me write it down. >> you write it down. take these -- >> put s.o.b. >> oh -- >> it's tuesday, september 6. >> wow. hey. wow. >> we've got the national affairs editor for new york magazine. >> what was that. >> that was jimmy hoffa -- he's

the teamster and union president. he's -- >> what was he doing? >> he's pro-obama. >> introducing the president -- >> of the united states. >> that had to be embarrassing for the president. to come out and tell the guy to introduce you, willie, that this coarsens our culture and this is the rhetoric -- you saw my michigan speech. is this embarrassing for the president? >> just last year. >> no indication. no indication yet. >> he didn't call it out. >> he called them out afterwards. >> they have no comment. >> so what happened? >> financier and morning joe.

>> in washington, speaking of sexy, pat buchanan joins us. >> all right. >> to answer your question, i know, we've got the chairman of the tea party demanding immediate apology. >> what happen? what happened there? >> well, we had some very, very, very harsh words by the president of the teamsters union that i think there are worse ones being used there than sobs. >> like what? >> let's launch into the news. teamsters union, president jim hoffa warming up the crowd before the labor day speech in detroit taking that at the tea party that we played to you coming in to the show, the chairwoman of the tea party wants an apology from hoffa. she said this -- jimmy hoffa's remarks are inexcusable and amount to a call for violence on peaceful tea party members which include many teamster members. the white house had no comment on the labor leader's language

despite the president's repeated calls to change the tone in washington. this wasn't the first time the white house failed to denounce heated rhetoric. biden said republicans in congress were acting like terrorists. >> he denied that, though. >> biden denied it. >> it was a closed-door meeting. >> it was during the debt ceiling debate. >> we're not allowed to criticize joe biden on the set. >> several sources in the room who said that at the time. >> don't forget the biden rule. >> you don't criticize joe biden. but can we speak ill of the president for not calling out joe biden? that's not calling out joe biden. if you're going to talk -- i don't know. it seems that there seems to be a rule here. which is don't say really mean things that coarsen the debate and could encourage violence unless you're a democrat -- and then it's okay. if you support me -- if you

support me, you can say we're going to, quote, take people out. >> unless there's a chance it will dry up democratic turnout in 2012, we have to make an exception for that too. >> there's an exception. >> the bigger picture is jobs, right, right, right? >> can you imagine what would happen? you know what happens? we're the targets, right? you talk about taking somebody out? >> that was the language that i think was -- >> take those sons of bitches out. that's hard to justify that. >> there aren't a lot of interpretations. let's go to willie geist. he's our linguist specialist. he's back not from a vacation but a sabbatical. >> oh! >> almost literally, months. >> sweet thing. >> it has been a month. >> professor of political discourse -- >> yeah, he's been at that college where that guy is teaching.

we talk, we criticize republicans all the time they come out, michelle bachmann says horrible things or sarah palin has targets and all of the press joins in. it's a big ole party. talk about, quote, taking him out, silence. not a word. every media outlet. actually, jake tavern at abc news did something on it. but nobody else. >> it's been interesting to watch everyone immediately con textualize it, but not to excuse it saying the president wasn't there, he was saying it in response, hoffa was, to other war language used by the tea party saying he's willing to take on this war. a lot of people trying to justify it a little bit. >> what do you think as a linguist specialist? let me say this, you know who jim hoffa is, a fiery guy, a regular guy, a plain spoken guy. if you invite him to introduce you, he might say something

about it. >> this isn't just jim hoffa. this sabt hoffa, i like hoffa. this isn't about him or joe biden. this is about the president of the united states. if he's going to go around and lecture us on civility, he's going to criticize his own people. >> i understand that. >> i'm not fighting. >> you were there and you were there. >> everybody but us. willie busted his -- >> literally. let's get it out of the way now. >> i'm sitting on this. >> what's that? >> isn't that sharp? >> wait a minute? >> isn't that nice? >> what's going on there? >> you can buy it at any obgyn clint sonic. >> funny. what's that? >> i broke my tailbone a week ago. i sit on the little intertube and the kids can use it in the pool. >> there are pills that you can

take. i have some. >> i have pills. not on them now. >> i literally broke my butt. >> that is horrible. >> so you saw it afterwards? >> talk about that a little later in the show. the bigger thing is from will willie's -- to sons of --. but it's violent rhetoric. people rightly defend the imagery around gabrielle giffords. if this had been said by a member of the tea party a month before she got sho people would have rightly pointed out that the language that could have incited shooting gabriel giffords. both sides should call it out, including the president. >> softball, pat buchanan, the size of a pumpkin lays on a tee, go ahead and hit it. we're going to move on to jobs,

go. >> our boy joe biden, he said the republicans were the barbarians at the gates. said the tea party wants to see black folk s hanging from trees. it looks to me like the democrats are coming back to town looking for a fight, and, b, they're distracting from barack obama, the substance of the great program when we spend eight, nine minutes talking about jim hoffa. >> there's real frustration, actually, from democrats. talk to them on the hill. there's frustration that the president isn't fighting enough. and perhaps this is the overreaction. but as we go back to washington, d.c., the focus is on jobs, steve rattner. the president has a huge speech to give. as always, you come to depress as well as educate. >> i come to ruin your day. you have charts to show that the a administration has ground to make up for, let alone gain on when it comes to jobs, correct?

>> i have lots of charts. we can start wherever you want. >> dive in. >> the ps is going to be framing the jobs. a lot of people say there's nothing he can do about jobs. he's given the speech already many times. what is the great challenge for this president, congress, and country. >> there are a limited number of things he can do about jobs. wille's going to get up there on thursday with a joint session of congress with a lot of hoopla, the kind of atmosphere with crisis-like remedies to. he's going to unveil some proposals. and i think there's a high degree of skepticism about how much gets passed. even if it gets passed, how do you move the needle when it gets to the next election. that's the concern. >> talk about deficits. >> let's talk about deficits. deficits are important.

the president, as you know, is going to put off a lot of the deficit stuff until next week and make this speech all around jobs. but it is important for people to understand what's been happening with the deficit. >> lack of jobs drive up the deficit. >> so, what we're look gt a it here are three lines, basically, that show you we talked about funny money and accounting and what are you cutting from, what's the baseline? these are dollars in and dollars out over the last 12 months on a rolling basis. so the touch redline is your outlays. outlays have almost exactly flat sin the beginning of '10. in the last year and a half, we stopped the increase of federal spending. there's a mix of things happening inside, stimulus money, more money for entitlements. but if you add it together, spending stayed flat. revenues have been going up. because of the recovery, the inflation pushing people to

higher tax brackets. so the deficit has been coming down. you look at the change over that period of time, the deficit has come down about $250 billion since the beginning of '10. the black numbers at the bottom. that's good news for those of us, including myself, who believes the deficit should come down. but remember when you take $250 billion out of the economy, you're slowing the economy. >> paul krugeman talked about how there's an overemphasis on short term deficit cutting. and krugman was talking about, yes, we have a long-term debt crisis. in the short term, we need to keep spending, keep spending. where do you come down on that argument? >> i come down in the sen that we have a long-term deficit problem. you and i agree with this.

these are real, massive, genuine problems. it's not good for the economy for the government to be sucking the money out of the economy. $250 billion over the last year and a half, $250 billion over the last 14 months. every $100 billion on gdp is something like 1 million jobs depending on how you spend it. >> this is surreal when you talk about cutting the national deficit by $250 billion. that $250 billion in the 19 80s was cause for a problem itself. cutting it to $1.25 trillion? but again, steve's point, to krugman's point. zero job growth in august and long-term interest rates close to 2% which really is extraordinarily historically

low. you could be doing a lot more short term. if you had a credible long-term plan for deficit reduction, the markets are tolerant right now. deficits are in the short term trying to get the economy going again. >> pat buchanan, said it around this table a great deal. i don't know if you agree with me at this point. but if you had a serious long-term approach to debt reduction, by taking on entitlements, defense spending, some of the military venturism, that would give you lot of latitude over the next two or three years to spend a heck of a lot of money if that's what it took to get people back to work. if you had a program that america bought into. >> joe, would that be credible down the road we're going to cut, etc., etc. few people believe that. take maxine waters hypothetically, we ought to have $1 trillion in a jobs program right now. where exactly are we going to get the money except to go to china and borrow that trillion dollars and add it to the

deficit and add it to the debt. so the president is in a very, very deep tight box right now. >> the president has a big address thursday night. he urged parties to work together on ap upcoming jobs plan which we know little about at this point but democrats won't be waiting around for republicans if they don't. >> we're going to see if we've got some straight shooters. we're going to see if republicans will put country before party. we'll give them a plan. we'll say do you want to create jobs and put our construction workers back to work rebuilding america. do you want to help our company to succeed? open up new markets for them to sell their products. you say you ear the party of tax cuts, prove you'll fight just as hard for tax cuts for middle-class families as you do for oil companies and affluent

americans. >> the backdrop, the new nbc-"wall street journal" poll shows the job approval at 44% with 51% disapproving. that is the highest disapproval rating the poll has recorded for the president and the job rating on the economy is at an all-time low with 37% of those polled approving. congress' approval rating is even worse, though. >> 13%. is that bad? >> yeah, 13% approve of their work. 82% disapprove. the 82% disapproval is it the highest record in the nbc-"wall street journal" poll. >> pat, like most of us, i have been skeptical in the past about the possibility of an independent candidate running and winning. the presidency. i am no longer skeptical. the right person with the right money should be able to drive a

mack truck through the hole that's opening, not in the ideological center of america, but really running against both parties. running against washington. i think we've gotten to a point where it's a nonideological battle. >> i think there's an opening. jerry brown made it, just the regime itself, not simply the economy, but because of the lack of confidence. if you take a look at the third party thing that i did once and perot did rather successfully, you'll get 35%, 40% of this country going to vote for barack obama because he is their guy. i think a republican nominee this time who is fresh, he's going to get 40%. i don't know where a third party candidate creates a party, gets on 50 state ballots, and goes and wins a national selection.

i don't know if they get perry and the democratic party is loyal to president obama. 70% of the country still likes it guy. >> do you agree? >> i think it's true. the hurdles in the third party is off of the ground. >> all 50 states. >> the partisan i.d. in the country. you see it up at 30% the right amount of money targeting the right states, if you got the right percent of the vote, you could be a player. it's near the needle of the thread. you're not going to see a third party candidate get 40% to 45% of the vote in the country. have to find a narrow path. >> you agree, steve? >> i do. i did it last night with america's favorite mayor. he says -- >> rahm emmanuel. >> yeah. a data driven guy. the data doesn't support it. you've got all of this math. if you were to get that 30%, you would probably throw the election to the house where you

have no possibility whatsoever of emerging. >> all right. >> this is a mayor who's not only america's favorite mayor, but he studied the matter closely over the last two cycles. >> had the money to do it. >> had the money to do it. >> if there were a way, he would be doing something. all right, coming up, dnc chairwoman debbie wassermann schultz. and chuck todd digs into the nbc news/"wall street journal" polls out this morning. >> oh, my gosh, willie, we're not even going to bring up the miami hurricanes. >> no. it's sad. they're playing without half their team. they put up a good fight. >> "the washington post's" eugene robinson on the show today. up next, a major shake-up in the bachmann campaign, did you hear about this? >> did. >> the top story in the politico playbook. but first, here's todd santos with a check on the forecast. todd? good morning, guys. we're talking a bit of rainfall across the appalachians in some areas that have been saturated

if you're a member. i know it seems like a distance history for some. we're bringing rain to some of the same areas. keep in mind, that's a 12-hour loop for rainfall. we're looking for severe weather today. some of that can come in the form of flooding. flash flood warnings had just expired. we could see some more of those today. tornado watch, 2:30 p.m. in north carolina extending over to eastern south carolina. that would be one of the areas to be ready to get shot. some of the latest warnings in the daytime, have the storm radio ready. checking in on hurricane katia. check out that path, lots more "morning joe" coming up after this. introducing the schwab mobile app.

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all right, 24 past the hour. time now to look at the morning papers.

"chicago tribune," according to an unnamed source pat quinn plans to issue layoff notices to thousands of state workers this week as it deals with the budget shortfall, the estimates to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. >> in the gazette this morning, a new section of morning papers, a parade of papers where we take a look at parade-affiliated newspapers across the country. in the worst telegram and gazet gazette, agents working with the cia arrested an al qaeda leader believed to have tasked to argument economic interests around the world. the arrests signals that relations are improving now between pakistan and the u.s. following the bin laden raid. >> former alaska governor sarah palin told an audience of supporters in manchester, new hampshire that they need candidates who do more than just talk. >> that's what she was just

doing. >> palin didn't tip her hand. >> no, she's not talking anymore. pat, this is good news. palin is not just talking, she's going to run, right? >> i see you, joe. >> right. >> exactly. >> and the houston chronicle, before heading back to texas to monitor wild fires, governor rick perry in conway, south carolina, texas should with the job creating model for the nation. social security and -- >> would you stop talking about that. >> and he's for gun control. as he says it, use both hands. >> stop it! stop it! >> that's a man who shot a coyote on a jog. you've never done that. correspondent for politico, mr. mike allen with a look at the playbook. hello. >> let's try some english. good morning. >> big news last night. >> huge news. >> ed rawlings announcing he's stepping aside as campaign manager for the campaign.

michelle bachmann saying he had health problems. went on cnn later that night and said this is now a romney-perry race essentially. >> brought her to the victory in ames, iowa. she never capitalized on it. they had stolen her momentum after she never had any chance. it's a part of his health, he's 68. rigors railroad getting to him. but replaced by the advanced man. a sign she has trouble. her staff and deputy campaign manager going. don't forget, congresswoman bachmann had four chiefs of staff and five press secretaries. so she has a little trouble. >> yeah, john heilman, she's known to not keep staff a whole

lot. >> she -- she's -- she has a little high turnover rate. that's true. and that -- those numbers tell you a lot right there. >> isn't that stunning? >> ed rawlings, you could say it's a two-person race. but if you look at michelle bachmann, she's in fourth. you pointed out on the show, she was flavor of the month 60 days ago. >> we have a lot of the flavors. sarah palin in the fall. let's repeat. sarah palin who was unbeatable in the fall. she's the one. >> fall of 2010. >> fall of 2010. we get to the spring, it was donald trump. remember, donald trump led everybody in about three or four polls. and then, the new season of apprentice came out. he got out of the race. then michelle bachmann. we heard she was the flavor of the month. and now we're on to rick perry. >> that was only a month ago michelle bachmann won the straw poll. >> a month ago. >> names, we hardly knew ye.

>> having been involved, a lot of this reminds me of that. john kerry is mitt romney. he was the front-runner, the solid uninspiring choice. and all my friends said who else is there? let's get so and so. we had the howard dean moment and so on. and i think there's a little bit of that going on here as well. >> that's why mika is right when she says it's all romney. people mocked the romney people for not reacting dramatically. they are playing a strong hand. they need to deal with perry. he's a problem, a threat to the nominee. >> rick perry may deal with himself. >> they're trying to do that. we're going to stay on an even keel and ride this out. >> speaking of rick perry, going to see him on wednesday for the first debate. he was supposed to do that forum in south carolina but left to tend to the wild fires. what can we expect on wednesday? >> he's always been a reluctant

debater. he wept back and looked at debates he has done. and found he won by not losing. he doesn't make a lot of mistakes so he goes in with a lot of confidence in a politico, george washington university battleground poll out today, he's 36% doubling up, mitt romney down at 17%. michelle bachmann at 10. >> the nbc poll has him up 15% on mitt romney. mike allen, a look at the playbook. thanks so much, michael. see you soon. have a great debate week. the latest on the wild fires that are burning across texas. plus, a fashion faux pas in college football last night. you see the uniforms on maryland. >> what is that about? >> oh. >> sports is next.

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34 past the hour. what's the rub? >> t.j. brings in a song by postal service called "dc sleeps." he goes, let's punch up the shot

of new york city. what are you doing? >> well, okay. >> that's better. >> ruthless operation. 63 wild fires spread throughout much of the lone star state, burning 30,000 acres of property. firefighters are working around the clock to contain the fires as texas is in the midst of its worst drought in decades. much of the damage coming east of austin where nearly 500 homes have been destroyed. and more than 5,000 people have been evacuated since sunday afternoon. one official calls it, quote, the worst fire season in the history of texas. the wild fires have spread in part due to tropical storm lee hitting the gulf coast this weekend. more than a foot of rain was dump in parts of new orleans and 16,000 were stranded in louisiana and mmidwest as the storm moves to georgia and tennessee. another headline. >> across florida too. flew into that this week ebld.

>> go to willie now who's back for sports. so glad. >> first sports together in a month. >> i know. that's wrong. >> we've been together a month, almost two months. >> i'm sure you missed mommy. >> mommy, daddy, the whole crew, financiers, whoever you are. journalists. one of the great political performers of all times. >> presumptuous this morning if he had watched the game. >> monday night college football. miami playing maryland. check out the uniforms on maryland. go with the state flag on the shoulders and half of the helmet. going to jump up to the crowd. going to see the left side has the red and white. the white side the black and

white. a strange look. eight of the starters including quarterback jacori harris. once the game started, they hung in there a little bit. lamar miller finds a hole up the middle. miami's got the ball. but mike james is stripped, falls right into the arms of the maryland defensive lineman. he rumbles. joe velano, 30 yards for the touchdown. miami's defense coming through. four turnovers, in the fourth -- look at that. time running down. miami within two. the backup quarterback steven morris throws it in the hands. he rubs it bac s runs it back. maryland beats miami. maryland's quarterback had 348 yards. daniel bript, 340 yards passing. >> did you think you'd see a uniform to make the houston astro's uniforms look good?

>> those are cool in hindsight. >> never be cool. >> they're at the end playing without the starters. get some of them back next season. >> by the way, let me just say, vanderbilt? >> hey. >> when you take on. give us a break. >>e lan is in north carolina. i called him two weeks ago on the air, i called them college, elan university, no match for the commodores. the james franklin era begins in music city. >> this may be the start of something good. >> yeah. >> we'll see you on october 8, i believe it is. >> in tuscaloosa, alabama. going to do this show. homecoming weekend on friday. >> are we? >> yes, we are. >> that's going to be fun. >> let's check in with the a.l. east. shall we? the yankees at home taking on the orioles. a slugfest.

teams combined with seven home runs. robinson cano, a grand slam. score is 8-7. the hero of the day, the yankees' highly touted rookie catcher jesus montero. he broke a tie in the sixth with the first major league run. comes out for a bit of a curtain call. that's the first career home run. but in the next inning, he gets his second career home run, two-run shot to almost the same spot. the yankees beat the orioles but the final score of 11-10. the red sox trying to keep one the yankees. bad news for the sox fans. in the fifth inning, josh beckett throws a pitch, comes up lame with the right foot. he leaves with a sprained ankle. hope that's all it is. no word yet on the severity. you need him. the game remains scoreless until the 11th inning. lowrie at the plate again. he takes a dan wheeler fastball to the center field seats. jays win walkoff 1-0. the sox have lost 6 of 10, they trail the yankees by 2 1/2 games

in the a.l. east. >> the sox's worst start since the beginning of the year. the first time they've lost two series in a row since the beginning of the year. >> the yankees are hot, but got a month left. >> not worried about the losses, worried about the ankle. >> i know. >> we need a strong josh beckett in the postseason, or we're in trouble. >> if you have lackey that gets shelled every other outing and wakefield, it's tough. >> don't forget, we have burnet who gets shelled every outing. so you're going to be okay. still ahead, dnc chairman debbie wassermann schultz and the must-read opinion pages. [ female announcer ] lactaid milk is easy to digest.

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having a conversation with america, how do we make that transition from the system we've got today that i call it a ponzi scheme, a monstrous lie for our kids. and it's true. there's no use in me -- i mean, anyone who is running for the presidency of the united states and wants to keep status quo on entitlement is suspect. they don't want to be honest with the american people. >> all right, 43 past the hour. time now for the most read opinion pages. a lot of republican gop events over the weekend and coming this week that we should talk about. but we're also talking about thursday evening, the president's speech. and there are pretty rough pieces on it. maureen dowd, one and done. if the language of obama had not done his usual irritating fourth quarter play. if he had presented a jobs plan a year ago and fought for it, he wouldn't have needed to elevate the setting. how will we up the ante next

time? a speech from the space station. obama is still suffering from the speech illusion, the idea that he can come down from the mountain, read from the teleprompter, cast a magic spell with his words and climb back up the mountain while we scurry around and do what he proclaimed. the days of spinning illusions in a greek temple in a football stadium are done. the one is standing on the edge of one term. maybe obama wasn't even the person he was waiting for. >> oh, god. >> what's the other one. >> wall street -- >> one that's positive. that's negative from maureen dowd. let's find a positive one for the president, what do you have? >> it's "the wall street journal." in music, there's a saying about a performance that's too small for the house. that's becoming true of the president. there was a day when mr. obama's taste for the marvelous. a case in berlin, the presidential seal, the speech

columns around the nomination all seemed to herald something exciting and historic. even inside the beltway, however, substance tells. three years to his presidency, the grander the stage, the smaller mr. obama comes across. >> okay. so -- >> that's two references to the faux greek columns. on maureen dowd on the left, the washington journal on the right. pat buchanan. >> what does the president need to do thursday? >> a tough, tough crowd out there. >> it can be done, can it not? >> i know he's got a lot of advice from the democrats, go high, go big, go bold. make it -- throw it in their face. and if you don't get it, run against him. i really think the president's best course would be to get up there and lay down some things that he believes that the republicans will agree some of them at least so you can get something done for the country. that's what the country wants.

if you have a flight after that, fine. but i would not go up there and get in their face and do the jim hoffa, barbarians at the gates and the rest of the run. >> it will make democrats feel good right now the next time you lash out at republicans. just because the country hates republicans a little more and so you drive it down to 12% instead of 13% in the house, it doesn't help the president. >> much bigger issues. structural economic issues that this president, this congress, this washington, this count i have have to address. talk about unemployment first. i talked before about my dad being unemployed. but there was -- there was cycles back in the '70s, back in the '80s, back in the '90s for these recessions. they were six months, a year, a year and a half. things have completely changed this time.

>> things have changed. we're in unprecedented territory. look at the numbers unemployed for more than -- been unemployed. the average is 40 weeks now. >> look at that -- look at that chart. it's unprecedented. the great depression. >> look back to the early '80s when reagan had their struggles. the '50s, '60s, '70s, not half as high as we are now in terms of the length of unemployment. people finding a job. it's tough. >> you've been talking about the middle class at risk. and tough terms since the mid 1990s. talking about the manufacturing base going away. the challenge is this, is this the result of what you've opinion warning about for 20 years? >> what we warned about is if you put in the economy like the united states with the high wage rates dropping in to the local

economy, production is going to move offshore. cheaper there, less regulation there. so in the last decade, we lost 6 million manufacturing jobs and 50,000 factories. where do you think they went? they went to china. we're still buying shoes and clothes and cars and tv sets to a degree. we no longer make them here. i think both parties, i don't think either one of them has the solution for that. how to bring manufacturing back. they all talk about it. they knocked china. what china is doing is good for china? >> the problem is also that we have to add to the fact that we've become much more productive if you look at automation, computers since the early 1990s. that's costing tens of millions of jobs as well. respond to that. i want you to talk about how washington is making a bad situation much, much worse right now. >> let's start with that. it is amazing. the job is creating business lately. if you look at consumer

confidence plunged to a low level, it's happened in the debt ceiling debate. if you go to the next chart after this, please, you'll see that of the five or six major events in the history of these numbers, you don't have it. what you see is katrina created the biggest drop in consumer confidence. the second biggest is the debate. what's going on in washington the last few months has created the second worse drop in consumer -- >> so consumer confidence has collapsed more than the debt crisis debate than did in the iranian hostage crisis, than it did in the invasion -- >> it says that the debt ceiling -- carolina twice as

bad. this is just stunning. basically, obviously not just that single debate. it's the fact you can look at the nbc news, "wall street journal" polls. americans don't trust washington anymore. >> that debate scared the hell out of everybody. >> they not only don't trust washington. if that lack of confidence means folks aren't going to go out, walmart, they're not going to go out and buy a lot of stuff. they lack confidence. if you have a 2,000-point drop in the dow which means well-to-do folks are saying, whoa, i'm not going to go out and buy a lot either. how does the economy start rolling if that's the attitude of the vast majority. >> people think we're suffering total system failure. you look at it in the white track, wrong track numbers too.

72% of the people think the country is on the wrong track. that is brutal. >> is washington suffering total system failure? >> so far it has. it's done nothing constructive to solve this problem. >> that's why people are skeptical about the president's speech. whatever he says, they think the congressional republicans will shoot it down. >> "news you can't use" is next. >> happy, boom, just like this.

oh, yes. i've been waiting a month for this. is it time? >> we had the prerecorded -- >> wait a minute. i don't understand that. >> you did what you just did. >> some days they miss in something to keep me on my feet. john huntsman can't get out from the bottom of the pack for the republican polls. yesterday, milford, new hampshire taking a new approach. he ran everywhere, two miles. he had the button down and the khakis on. this is a parade route in new hampshire. >> what's he doing? >> milford, new hampshire. he ran the entire way. shaking hands, kissing babies on the move, actually. >> not going to be enough? >> i don't think it's going to be enough. >> there you go. >> what happened?

he's just -- >> sorry. >> what happened? what's going on? he did so well at the cfrb meetings. >> stop it. >> going to be okay. >> not a big moment. >> can't move the needle. he stuck around 1% and 2%. >> why can't he move the needle? >> he's sense only. that's why. >> did he say anything about spartans. >> you manhattan liberal you. you cfr guy. you mentioned at the top of the show that i broke my behind. fractur fractured coccyx. here's how it happened. >> stop using that language on the air. >> that is called the spartan race. my brother-in-law to be made this his bachelor party. ran it up in massachusetts.

you did see a shot there -- someone being carried away on a stretcher. i'd like you to know that i crossed the finish line under my own power. it's an adventure race thing. the end of the race. you run up and down a ski slope a few times. in the end, it's a party. you're sliding down the muddy hill. it's over. you get your amples up. there's some rocks concealed in there. >> your brother-in-law is trying to kill you. >> is that fun? >> as i pointed out to him, you don't break your tailbone silting in a black jack table in vegas. >> that's not a typical willie geist bachelor party. >> he's a good man. we're going to forgive him. >> debbie wassermann schultz when we come back.

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i'm going to propose ways to put america back the work that both parties can agree to. because i still believe both parties can work together to solve our problems. and given the urgency of this moment, given the hardship that many people are facing, folks have got to get together. but, we're not going to wait for them. we're going to see if we have straight shooters in congress. we're going to see if congressional republicans can put country before party. we'll give them a plan and say do you want to create jobs? then put our construction workers back to work rebuilding

america. you want to help our companies succeed? open it back up. you say you ear the party for tax cuts? prove you'll fight as hard for tax cuts for middle-class families as you do for affluent americans. >> we're still here along with pat buchanan in washington. a lot going on. >> there was -- >> a lot going on. >> there were some fiery and controversial rhetoric on the campaign trail yesterday. teamsters union warming up the crowd yesterday taking a shot at the tea party. >> you know what? everybody here has got a vote. if we go back, we keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a pitches out and give america back to america where we belong. thank you very much. thank you. thank you. thank you.

>> oh -- >> how's that working for you? >> no, that doesn't work. >> first of all, somebody has to tell them it's not son of --s, it's sons of --s. got to get the grammar right. >> republicans have been blasted for using rhetoric like this. yet the president -- should the president, john, back off, tell hoffa he was out of line for using what mika referred to last hour as violent rhetoric? >> i think the president is going to make calls for less coarse -- the coarsening of our civil discourse. he's going to make that. the appeal for the american people, he's got to be applied equally to both sides. >> yeah, i think he could have said thank you for the production. i don't know if i would have used that choice of words but -- >> he doesn't have to attack. but -- >> but i'm sure, willie geist, you're the ones who sorts

through all of the pages. you're like our civilities. all of the newspapers have -- have roundly condemned mr. hoffa. >> no. >> who i like very much by the way >> don't see a lot of editorials on it this morning. the coarsening of the debate. >> well -- >> is the president's position only then if republicans say harsh things, they should do it. >> i sense the president and the white house is pressured putting out a statement today where they condemn it in some way. as steve pointed out last hour, this is a distraction. what's happening in the country which is the question of jobs which the president went on to address yesterday. so i think it's ridiculous when we talk about it on the right. it stands here on the left that this has nothing to do with the core debate that's at the economy. stinks. >> we don't need that kind of language. >> i agree. >> look, if sarah palin said that, we'd be reading about it everywhere. we don't need it.

>> that's not true. she had the pac website where she had the targets up. >> right. >> blew right over it. like a little spring shower. >> right, but we're going have romney's economic plan today. the republican debate tomorrow night. we're going to have the president thursday night. these are the big events. >> absolutely. >> big, big week. what about the 2012. i would be interested to see if this president talks about civility backs away from jim hoffa's speech and if he makes jim hoffa apologize. >> let's turn to the 2012 race? >> i like him? >> he's a friend. >> he's a friend. >> he doesn't need to talk that way. >> the nbc news "wall street journal" poll shows rick perry with 38% support. mitt romney follows the texas governor with 23%. the poll comes as five of the republican parties. >> notice i didn't jump in and say i like rick perry.

you do in a special way. they travelled to a debate mediated by jim demint. they talked about health care, abortion, the role of organized behavior. mitt romney played it safe in front of conservatives in the crowd choosing not to criticize any of the components of the tea party forum. the governor was asked about the massachusetts health care law replying it would be a asset in a fight against president obama. michelle bachmann par tils pa -- participated in an event last night despite major shake-ups in her campaign. ted raw lins announced he would step down from the bachmann campaign using to a senior advisory role. >> pat buchanan goes on cnn and says this race is between romney and the other guy from texas.

what's his name? >> perry. let me show you this poll, the perry fella, it's doubling now. >> i think rick perry has been a sensation, joe. and it really is -- >> define, if you could for me, define for us, sensation. >> you need to stop it. what is sensation? >> well, i think he's come out of the box faster and further than any political candidate for the republican nomination new to the race that i've ever seen. i'm surprised at how high he is. i think it's going to be a lot closer. it will be a lot tighter race. perry is going to come down a bit. again, romney, i think, has handled himself very well but shouldn't have made that statement. my guess is your advisory role may be in jeopardy. >> can rick perry win a general election against barack obama in

the fall? >> if you look at them right now, there are states like michigan, mitt romney has a fighting chance in that i think perry would have a tough time in. but i would not write perry off. because he has an excitement to him, an energy, a bonding with him that hasn't taken place with mitt romney. >> he's got a set of views that are so completely disconnected from what even republicans believe, let alone americans. they're unma'imaginable. >> much larger lift for rick perry and the general election. i must say, we look at the polls. 72% of the country thinks the country is off track. it will be hard. but if 75% of the country thinks it country is under attack next november, the president will have a hard time against anyone. because that 75% think that senators should be selected by state legislators instead of -- >> you're applying a level to

rationality that the american public -- >> you put that in a 30-second commercial that rick perry does not believe that the united states senate should be voted on democratically. you put there that he caused social security in a ponzi scheme that causes, quote, violence to american values, you know, i'm kind of thinking, he might lose the middle. there's some people out there. oh, i guess you could only define yourself as a real republican in 2011 by supporting candidates who cannot win. what is your definition of a real republican? i'm not a real republican. >> good on you. >> guess what, i like winning. it's about winning. yeah, pat? >> the way the country is going right now, a lot of people are profoundly concerned and if you're given a choice between rick perry and a new republican party which is moving in a good direction at least, but you don't like what perry does, are

you going to say, well, let's go four more years with barack obama? that's the problem is that people are going to have to go in there and vote for four more years of what appears to be a failed presidency. >> pat bu cap mchanan, we've gie choice of voting for a failed president and a guy who says social security causes violence to american values and a guy who talks about wanting to secede from the union and a guy who says believes that -- what's the other? that senators should not be voted on by the people, that they should be appointed by state legislators. the failed president wins. >> the income taxes are unconstitutional. that's a good one. a little bit of illusion. >> i'm unsure. >> the difference between ronald reagan the man who ran and beat a failed president, and rick perry. the differences are legion to

draw upon that reference. they are legion. >> remember ronald reagan, "let the blood bath begin." that was reagan in the '60s. a different one in 19d 1980. >> unfortunately for rick perry, he didn't write his book ten years ago. he wrote it last year. this is the same rick perry that talked ant seceding from the union a couple of years ago now. this is the same guy that says social security caused violence to american values, basic american values. this is the same guy a year ago saying that the united states senate should not be voted upon by the people. i'm sorry, but -- >> right now, the country knows a lot of these things, joe. he's running close to the president of the united states. >> you know, i love you, pat. you are way out there on this one. no way -- >> he's adorable. >> no way he can win a general election. press the record button, texas.

no way rick perry could win a general election. no way. let's play this back the day after he wins a general election. >> thank you. >> go right now to charlotte, north carolina. talk to democratic congresswoman from florida, chair of the democratic national committee, debbie watszerman schul wasserm. great to see you. >> great to see you too. >> the president is getting hammered by everybody from "the wall street journal" to his job speech. what can the president say to inspire americans to believe that he wants to get them back to work andist's not just a partisan attack against republicans or a political act to ge his numbers up? >> let's draw a contrast here. supposedly outlines the stark contrast between his vision for

the economy turning around and the president mentioned how stark the contrast is. president obama has been pushing hard to move the country forward. has begun to turn the economy around. taken us from bleeding 750,000 jobs to adding jobs for 18 straight months in the private sector. on thursday, will lay out his vision to make sure that we can have an infusion to the economy to jump start it at the short term and get people back to work and is going to call upon republicans and democrats to work together to put country before party and to make sure that we can all focus, like a laser, on creating jobs and getting this economy turned the around at a quicker pace. >> what's the first thing you would like him to do, congresswoman? what's the first thing you would like him to tell the american people this, is what congress needs to implement tomorrow. >> what i would like to see from president obama is a plan that's

going to give us a an infusion of policy that will jump start the economy and create jobs quickly. that's as quickly as possible. that's what i think is what his plan will look like, what the outlines will look like. on the other hand, we've got mitt romney who, you know, has a lot to -- got a lot at same stake here. he's said that he's going to propose this big plan, the track record doesn't match what he's saying he's going to propose. 47th in job creation when he was governor of massachusetts so -- >> debbie -- >> inside if he proposes today more of the failed policies have passed than what we expect. >> he's not giving the excuse, though, again, specifically. this isn't a trick question.

we are -- we talked about this every morning as you know, specifically, though, what is it the specific policy proposal you would like this president to put out on the table to kick start the economy. because we agree with you, there are long-term investments like say green energy over a decade. there's short term, like you said, kick starts to the u.s. economy that we need. give me the specific proposal that you like, that you think would kick start jobs in south florida across the state, across the region, across the nation? >> joe, particularly in states like ours, like in florida, construction jobs have gone away. we have a lot of unemployed construction workers. infrastructure investment and proposal is going to be a key linchpin to anything that any candidate for president, whether it's president obama or any other candidate for president. but that is what i'm going to be looking for.

at least as a portion of president obama's proposapropos. that's wouch the quickest ways to get people back to work. we have hundreds of thousands of construction workers sitting on the sidelines, roads and bridges in our country needs repairs and we need to unplug the arteries of our system. >> i'll be looking for a choice of words and phrasing and a way to really call out both sides of congress to work together and if i hear country before party one more time, seriously -- just -- i'll turn it off. i want him to -- >> mika -- >> he's got to talk to his base too. >> i unthe concept. i need to hear more. >> what am i saying? >> the president for months and months -- >> has been saying that. >> the president has been saying for months that we need to work together. many he's been calling upon republicans to join us at the table, work together p together towards compromise. unfortunately, the republicans

have only shown they care about one job, president obama's. we want to focus and move together on getting everyone in america back to work. everyone who wants a job who could get a job if we all work together. instead of working against each other. instead of the republicans prioritizing one guy's job in the white house. >> i want him to call them out. >> i think the stimulus program like you make those you seen those things when somebody hurts themselves and they can't sit down, the circular cushions? >> yeah. what's it call? >> a coccyx cushion. >> well, then -- >> i love it. i think we should start making those. give them to everybody who create jobs. >> maybe everyone in congress will have one. >> i want to ask you a serious question that has nothing to do with my medical problems. >> sure. >> awkward. >> you mentioned infrastructure. you're talking about a huge

stimulus, rebuilding bridges, roads, schools, everything else. we had a stimulus package that most republicans deemed ineffective, $1 trillion. what makes you think this time around that your fellow congress people, people across the aisle from me, would go along with me this time if they didn't think the last one would work. >> republicans who think the recovery act didn't work are wrong. the recovery act created an additional 6 million jobs. the recovery act had a direct impact on making sure the teachers, firefighters, police officers were able to remain in their jobs. it helped to turn the economy around. 50% of it was tax breaks to small businesses and to the middle class. so every economist that you would talk to is worth their salt acknowledges that without the recovery act we would not be continuing on the upswing, we would still be stuck or

spiraling downward. so theory pubs can't make up their own facts. the bottom line is the recovery had an impact. we need additional impact like an infusion of infrastructure, but a combination which is what i think the president will propose on thursday. >> all right, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> thank you as always. >> all right, what's kicking off charlotte in 2012 today here. we're excited about i want. >> very good. coming up next, chuck todd takes us inside the nbc news. "wall street journal" out this morning. i'm good about washing my face. but sometimes i wonder... what's left behind? [ female announcer ] purifying facial cleanser from neutrogena® naturals. removes 99% of dirt and toxins without dyes, parabens or harsh sulfates. so skin feels pure and healthy. [ female announcer ] from neutrogena® naturals. so syesterday doesn't win.lthy. big doesn't win.

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if you want to leave the education department there for a while to be a repository of best practices, i could get along with that. but the fact of the matter is, they have not educated one

child. just like the department of energy has not created one bit of energy. >> 23 past the hour, gentlemen. >> yeah. >> welcome back to "morning joe. with us from washington, pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. joining us, chief white house correspondent, political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. the headline to take away last night from the ball game had to be actually that -- >> no, the polls. >> the canes' short eight of their starters put up a good fight against a maryland team that's got a great new coach there. and a lot of excitement and i'm dead serious here, no reason to be embarrassed by last night's loss. >> no, i'm not. we may have the second best running back on the country. the best one down in tuscaloosa

and mr. richardson. i'm excited about him. i have to tell you this, i'm trying to dry out standing in the constant rain. i'm a little concerned. maryland put up 500 yards of total often. lucky at times, miami was, to be in that game. they held -- i think maryland went to the red zone eight times and only got one touchdown. that could have been a much-different ball game. i mean coming in there. we'll see. they have a little work to do. >> they were distracted by the helmets. i mean, you know. >> can i tell you about the helmets? you know what it looked like? it looked like somebody ran over a reptile in the road, saw what it looked like, and said, let's smear that on a helmet and make it a logo. >> backed up and did it again. one more question about football. we haven't gotten to it yet. then we'll get to the polls.

were you shocked by the dominance? does it prove once and for all that the top of the sec is just in a league of its own? >> how about just the sec west? >> it's the one division. >> it's sick. >> the fourth best team in the sec west might be arkansas and i think they could win any other conference in the country this year. that's going to be a tough league to get through. les miles had a lot of detractors. that's as big as i expected. >> gene robinson, getting more information on college football. >> absolutely. and, joe, first of all, the sec absolutely could be a division of the nfl almost. it is amazing and it's like the sec and it drops ten notches to the other conferences as far as i'm concerned.

stop hating on the maryland helmets. they're interesting. >> it's a flag that has that yellow and black checkerboard thing happening and the red and white? >> what is it? >> that is the -- that is the maryland flag. >> just because you have it, doesn't mean you use it. >> chuck todd. >> that's the flag of lord -- of george calvert, lord baltimore. we should all remove our hats and salute. >> can we start now with the president's approval rating. the lowest of his presidency so far at 44%. >> it is and it's -- there's a couple of things in here that are real -- warning signs to them. yes, it's an all-time low in the job approval rating. yes, 54% on disapproval. you know this very well, the favorable rating is at 44% and the job approval rating is 44%. they're -- when they start

coming in to unison, this happened to president bush at some point just after -- in 2005, it's hard to recover from that. 70% of the people find the president likable. but 59% said they disapprove of most of his policies. >> that's brutal. 6 60%. i said the president's approval ratings are higher than they should be, given the right tracks, wrong tracks, given the economy. but i'm reading more analysts say now those numbers are inflated by huge leads in blue states. is the president doing especially poorly on ohio, pennsylvania, etc. >> i can't. we're going to crunch our data a little later when we do a merge. he's going to do better in the

swing states in other polling data than i've seen. not much. but a couple of points. one thing -- yes, you can hear about the blue state argument. but if you -- the president's job rating in the south is so bad. his performance is so bad it weighs things down in the other parts of the country. >> you look at the polling data throughout the nbc news, "wall street journal" poll. it's about as bad as you can get from the president. as you think there's no hope, that maureen dowd was putting the dirt on his political grave, suddenly, out of the west, rides the calvary of barack obama in

the form of josh brolin imitating george w. bush running the state of texas. yes, talking about rick perry. a man who couldn't win a swing state if his life depended on it, if his horse's life depended on it. perry, 38%. mitt romney, 23%. michelle bachmann's former campaign manager saying, bye-bye. the obama people have to look at it saying, you know, this poll kind of sucks for us. the perry guy is running against us. >> this poll really sucks and this is the new "washington post" poll out too that sucks for the president. here comes rick perry. for the white house, they have to be saying, you know, bring him on. you and your horse come on and because -- because i'm with you, joe. i don't see how rick perry can win a general election given what he wrote in his book last

year. not even a full year ago. given the views that he's going to tell people about because that's who he is. i look at this guy as a general election candidate. i couldn't have designed a much worse general election candidate unless it's michelle bachmann. >> i did my own survey of team obama in the last four days. i said what do you want? run against perry or one against a strong rick perry that comes out of the republican primary that sort of doesn't get stopd, rig stopped. it's 38%. the largest number any republican's gotten. or do you want to run against a romney after he's had to basically claw his way to the nomination ripping perry to shreds, trying to get to the

nomination. and more of them seem to lean to saying i'll take a weakened romney, who had to claw his way, fight to the right to beat perry than a strong perry. because somebody say to me this, a democrat with a lot of the knowledge of the obama campaign say, you know what, when the country -- when the american public feels a little bit unsure, uneasy, a guy that will shoot a coyote in the face with a gun, they want some tough guy rhetoric. so there's not -- >> they're not dancing in the streets saying bring perry on, they'd rather face a weak romney than a strong perry. >> probably, they might be afraid of a strong perry. >> perry has the swagger thing. he shot the coyote and, yeah -- >> who cares.

four years ago, i thought romney would be a strong candidate. i think it again now pause of that malleability and the hair and the fact that he can talk business and finance in the economy. absolutely, i think yeah, i think 6 of one, half dozen of another. >> bill clinton saying rick perry is a good-looking rascal. >> he is. >> do you want a high-intensity election or a low-intensity election. because if you have rick perry, it's possible that with romney lowering the temperature and being weakened, being pushed to the right on issues but not

being someone who riles up the republican base that it could be a better scenario for the white house to run against him, because they can still hang the bad issues around romney. but without him inspiring real enthusiasm for his own base, democrats with win that election. >> i get that. that's plausible. i come back to the fact that rick perry has a set of views that are so far out of kilter with even the middle, the liberal republicans, it reminds me of barry goldwater, and even more so, that i cannot imagine -- >> the election -- >> is it the phase already kind of riled up? >> yeah. >> i want to get back to chuck. but pat wants to get in. pat, i think the republican base may be riled up. but it doesn't mean they have to vote for a guy that doesn't believe the united states senator shouldn't be voted on by the american people.

>> if you get romney as a nominee, obama is the issue. 2008, john mccain was running. he's an acceptable republican and obama ran all over him. if you get your people fired up the way they were in 2010 when we got 63 seats, i'll agree, perry will be an issue. so will obama. >> you know your elections are completely different than presidential electionings. you said a good bit in 2008, john mccain was ahead of barack obama doing well until the crash. >> he was ahead until he put palin on the ticket. >> so let's go to chuck. i like to get that in.

a remarkable poll number on how they thought about how washington handled negotiations. steve rattner called the largest drop in consumer confidence in american history other than the top country other than hurricane katrina. this number, staggering, staggering. >> 6%. >> i'm trying to find out who the 6% are. one thing that mildly surprised me. we threw in a question about the two-party system. is it working well? do you think it is in bad shape. but do you sort of stick with it. or is it time for a third party. the time for the third party number is only at 34%. that's the highest we had that number.

the 71%. the 82% disapproval rating for congress which if you think about the last one, that's the lowest in 30 years that congress has tippcked off the american public, that's what triggered it. the third party aspect number wasn't going to be higher sitting at 34%. i still think there is a -- both parties better be careful here. because another record in this poll, joe, it's only the third time in the history of the poll that both parties had a double digit negative rating. usually one goes up, one goes down. with ear not seeing that. it's a race to the bottom. >> who's doing worse right now? >> republicans, only by two points. >> thank you so much. >> sounds like a wash. >> we'll see chuck on the daily rundown at 9:00 eastern time. and eugene, thank you as well.

thanks. up next, dire warnings that the u.s. postal service may have to shut down. that's up with more straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ whoa! hey! [ dog barks, growls ] ♪ whoa, watch out, little man. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe."

they warp that unless congress intervenes, the agency could shut down entirely this winter. higher labor costs, a loss of advertising interview and the decline in mail due to the internet are leading the postal service to the second straight year of losses totalling $8 billion or more. it's the effort to stop the red ink -- in an effort to stop the red ink, the postal service proposed drastic closes including eliminating saturday delivery, closing up to 3700 post offices, and laying off 13 120,000 workers. the workers had been previously protectied by no layoff clauses something that the postmaster general will ask the senate to end. his goal is to cut $20 million from the annual $75 billion in

kos by the year 2015, hopefully to save the postal service. >> bad news. >> i guess, but it's pretty horrific. up next, defining the decade after 9/11. going to bring in the new yorker, stewart packer, next on "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." 45 past the hour. joining us, staff writer to the new yorker, george packer. he writes about the decade after 9/11. one north carolina town that he says tells it story of our national decline. welcome back to the show. good to see you. >> good to be with you. >> what is "the town" first of all. >> mt. airy, north carolina which was the original mayberry rfd. it has an iconic self-image.

a pretty main street. but basically where thousands of textile jobs disappear in the last decade, unemployment is high. they thought that the defense contractor coming in to make armor for military vehicles would be their economic salvation. but because of bureaucracy and politics of washington, it's been delayed and delayed. so it's kind of mayberry with the year beginning to peal off a little bit. >> your overarching argument isn't that by focusing solely on the war on terror in the past dec decade, predominantly on the war in the terror in the past decade, we've been caught sleeping at -- during that time china and other competitors h e

have. >> what's truly stunning is we kept going in the same direction we were headed in coming to september 11. there was supposed to be a transformation. it didn't happen. >> in what way? we've been fighting an international war for a decade now. >> how many americans has that affect? >> you're not talking in policy choices. you're talking in the lives of americans? >> in the lives of americans, in our institutions, in the levels of leadership. a tiny fraction of the country has borne the weight of those wars. that's one reason why they've continued so long. without a draft, without sacrifice. there hasn't been a -- an opposition to the wars. but more importantly, our institutions were in ill health on 9/11.

wages were stagnant. our news media is in trouble. politics are in trouble. all of the trends have continued and gotten worse. 9/11 didn't affect them. >> didn't galvanize us. >> it didn't. >> i agree with that. i'm going to agree with your piece. this one, america after september 11 was like a couch potato who survives a heart attack, vows to start a strict regimen of diet and exercise, and after a few weeks, still finds himself camped out in the living room. it's depressing. >> there's a wide spread sense. >> the decline whether it's terminal or not. we don't know. i can imagine if 9/11 will look like one of those moments where the great country and the great power had a chance to increase the advantage in the world instead of squandered it. it's been a decade of lost

opportunities. >> amazing the path we took. you know, i was writing a column for politico about yesterday i wept ba went back, put an excerpt from my last speech. it was an optimistic speech. ten years ago, america was at the height of the power. you have to go back to when rome was run by caesers to find a country as powerful as we were in every realm ten years ago today. ten years later, it's shocking to see how things have changed. >> what that tells you bit of a years ago. i focus on our institutions. people look at failures of leadership by this or that individual. that's what rivets us all the time. beneath the institutions, we had

institutions that been rise to the challenge. every institution failed a test in the last decade. at the bottom of it aa failure of our leaders to bring the country together, because our leaders are so bitterly divided. >> what does that mean specifically? george bush took a lot of heat for suggesting people go back and shop. it's now become famous. what could he have done in the last eight years of his presidency to change the direction of the country? >> there was a huge disconnect, a world war three scale and the actual reality of what was being asked of the public, which was to shop, hug your kids, pray for the victims. that's what the president said ten days after the attacks. my point of view, he might have said we all need to pay a little more in taxes, because we're

about to fight wars for ten years. >> i also think there's a fair number of people who feel as though the administration, politically opportunistic way used 9/11 to justify a war that a lot of people thought was the wrong war, the iraq war, and the financial system falling apart, enron happening and nothing done to regulate wall street. >> enron, worldcomm. i don't excuse myself. i was part of that obsession, but it did distract us and kind of distracted us from us. we were so focused on them, who are they, how do we fight them, we didn't ask who did we become and are we capable of taking on a challenge of this scale. >> it's not just george bush saying go shopping. everybody has continued to go

shopping. everybody wants their flat screens and food. >> my god, second and third houses. >> yes, another sector of society fights these wars. i'm dead serious. idiots. >> when soldiers come home, that's what strikes them. how can the country still be doing this? >> they feel, when you walked out of the pit after weeks in there, if you're a person on the front line trying to help after 9/11 or covering it, and you walked across town and you saw people sitting at cafes, eating lunch, you had this feeling of real anger and disconnect. how can you just sit there? that's how the soldiers feel coming back from afghanistan after giving years and years. >> 9/11 was compared most often to pearl harbor. there was a basic difference. pearl harbor brought a bitterly divided country together.

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>> looking ahead to tomorrow, tim pawlenty is going to be here. tom brokaw and emmitt smith will be here. that's cool. >> pensacola guy. pensacola in the house. >> day before the season. he can tell us what's going who happen. >> still ahead today, katrina vanden heuvel, pat buchanan and steve rattner when we return. >> all right. ♪ [ woman ] jogging stroller. you've been stuck in the garage

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♪ >> the problem is that this kind ofvillefy indication and over the top rhetoric closes the door to the possibility of compromise. it undermines democratic deliberation. it prevents learning, since after all, why should we listen to a fascist or socialist or a red wing nut or left wing nut. it makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down and hash things out. it robs us of a rational and serious debate, one we need to have about very big challenges facing this nation. it coarses our culture. it sends signals to the extreme

elements of our society that violence is a justifiable response. >> everybody here has a vote. if we go back and keep an eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and put america back where it belongs. >> good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast. live look at new york city. back to "morning joe." we have don heilemann and steve rattner along with pat buchanan in washington. >> what was that? >> that was jimmy hoffa. he's the teamsters union president, pro obama. >> what was he doing? >> he was introducing the president. >> of the united states. >> that had to be embarrassing to the president to come out and tell the guy that introduced you, willie that this is our culture and this is our rhetoric. you obviously saw my michigan

speech. was that embarrassing for the president? >> just last year. >> there's no indication yet that it was embarrassing. the president was not there. >> no, he's not embarrassed. >> i thought he introduced the president. >> the president was not on site yet, we're told. >> he didn't call him out. >> he called him out afterwards. >> they have not comment. >> what happened? >> we have financier and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner with us. >> i like it when it sounds really sexy. >> an in washington, pat buchanan joins us. to answer your question, i know, we've got the chair woman of the tea party who demanded an immediate apology. >> what happened there? >> well, we had some very, very, very harsh words by the president of the teamsters union that i think there's even worse ones being used there.

>> really? >> than sobs. >> teamsters president jim hoffa warming up the crowd before president obama's labor day speech in detroit, taking that shot we heard at the tea party that we played for you coming into the show. the chair woman of the tea party wants an apology from hoffa. in a statement she said "jimmy hoffa's remarks are inexcusable and amount to a call for violence on peaceful tea party members which include many teamster members." despite the president's repeated calls to change the tone in washington. this wasn't the first time the white house failed to denounce heated rhetoric. you'll recall vice president biden reportedly said republicans in congress were acting like terrorists. >> he denied that. >> okay. biden denied it? >> of course everybody that at the meeting said he did actually say it.

>> it was during the debt ceiling debate. >> we're not allowed to criticize joe biden on the set. >> several sources in the room said that at the time. >> don't forget the biden rule. >> you don't criticize joe biden. can we speak ill of the president for not calling out joe biden because that's not calling out joe biden? i don't know. it seems though, joe heilemann, that says don't say mean things in the course of a debate that could encourage violence unless you're a democrat and it's okay. if you support me, you can say we're going to quote take people out. >> unless there's a chance it will drive up democratic turnout in 2012. there's an exception for that. >> the bigger picture is jobs, right? >> can you imagine what would happen? actually, we do know what happened. we have the targets. you talk about taking somebody out. >> that was the language that i think was wrong.

>> take those sons of bitches out. it's hard to justify that. >> seriously, we talk, we criticize republicans all the time when they come out, michele bachmann says horrible things or sarah palin has targets and all the press joins in and it's a big old party, but you have the head of the teamsters introducing the president of the united states and he talks about quote taking them out silence. actually jake tapper, an abc news did something on it, but nobody else. >> it has been interesting to watch everybody immediately contextualize it, not excuse it. the president wasn't actually there and he was saying in response to other war language by the tea party. a lot of people trying to explain it away and justify it a little bit. >> what do you think is a linguist specialist? >> i would say that's over the line. you know who jim hoffa is.

he's a fiery guy, regular guy, plain spoken guy. if you invite him to introduce you, he might say something like that. >> again, this is really not about jim hoffa. i like him for the teamsters. this isn't about him. this isn't about joe biden. this is about the president of the united states. if he's going to go around lecturing us on civility, he has to hold people that introduce him to a higher standard. >> people rightly condemn the sarah palin imagery around gabrielle giffords. if the same thing had been said by a member of the tea party a month before gabrielle giffords got shot, people would have pointed it out as a crazy person shooting gabrielle giffords. i think there's a more civil tone to our discourse calling it

out. >> go ahead, pat buchanan. >> our boy, joe biden said yesterday the republicans were the barb arians at the gates. republicans said they want to see black folks hanging from trees. they said they can go to hell. it looks to me like the democrats are coming back to town looking for a fight and they're distracting from barack obama the substance of a great program when we spend eight minutes talking about jim hoffa. >> i think there's frustration from democrats who talked to him on the hill. there's frustration that the president is not fighting enough and perhaps this is overreaction. as we go back to washington, d.c., the focus is on jobs, steve rattner. the president has a huge speech to give. as always, you come with charts that depress as well as educate. >> i come to ruin your day. >> you've got charts that actually show the administration

has some ground to make up for, let alone gain on when it comes to jobs, correct? >> well, i've lots of charts. we can start wherever you want. >> dive in. i mean, the president is going to be framing the jobs issue. a lot of people say there's nothing he can do about jobs. he's given this speech already many times. what is the great challenge, not only for this president but for this congress and this country? >> look, there are a limited amount of things he can do about jobs. let's not confuse ourselves. one of the things i worry about is he's going to get up there on thursday in front of a joint session of congress with a lot of hoopla, the kind of atmosphere one proposes crisis like remedies to. he's going to unveil some set of proposals, which is going to be more or less bold, and i think there's a high degree of skepticism of how much gets passed and how much it moves to the next election.

that's really the concern. >> let's talk about deficits because right now -- >> let's talk about deficits because they're important. the president as you know is going to put off a lot of deficit stuff until next week and he's going to make the speech about jobs. it's important for people to stud what's happening to the deficit. >> lack of jobs drive up the deficit. >> so what we're looking at here are three lines basically that show you -- we've talked about funding money and accounting and what are you cutting from, baseline. this is dollars in, dollars out as reported by the treasury department over the last 12 months on a rolling basis. the top red line is your outlays. outlays have almost been exactly flat since the beginning of 10. for the last year and a half, we have in fact stopped the increase in federal spending. there's a mix of things happening inside here. we have less stimulus money, more money for entitlements. when you add it all together, spending has stayed flat.

revenues have been going up because of the recovery, some degree because of inflation pushing people into higher tax brackets. so the deficit has been gradually coming down. if you look at the change over that period of time, you'll see the deficits come down about $250 billion since the beginning of '10. the black numbers at the bottom. that's good news for those of us including myself who believe deficits should come down. remember that in a time of recovery, when you take $250 billion out of the economy, you are slowing the economy. >> paul krugman talked about how there's been an overemphasis on short term deficit cutting and even krugman yesterday was talking about, yes, we have a long term debt crisis, but in the short term, we need to keep spending, keep spending. where do you come down on that argument? >> i come down that most of krugman is, in the sense we have a long term deficit problem.

you and i agree about this, the 54 trillion, these are real, massive, genuine problems. in the short term, it is a very unusual recovery to be sucking money out -- for the government to be sucking money out of the economy in effect by reducing the deficit $250 billion over the last year and a half, another $250 billion over the next 14 months. that affects jobs. every billion dollars is something like a million jobs depending on how you spend it. >> this is surreal when you talk about cutting the deficit by $250 billion. that $250 billion in the 1980s was cause for alarm itself. now we're talking about cutting it to what? $1.25 trillion. >> again, steve's point, krugman's point, the column rightly pointed out, job growth in august and close to 2%, which

are really kind of historically extraordinarily low. those two numbers together do suggest, given where we are, that you could be doing a lot more short term if you had a credible long term plan for deficit reduction, the markets are very toll rant right now on deficit spending. >> pat buchanan, we said it around this table, i don't know if you agree with me on this point, but if you had a serious, long term approach to debt reduction, by taking on entitlements, defense spending, some of the military adventurism, that would give you a lot of latitude over the next two to three years to spend a heck of a lot of money if that's what it took to get people back to work. if you actually had a program that america bought into. >> right. hey, joe, would that be credible down the road, we're going to cut et cetera, et cetera. few people believe that. let's take maxine waters, she said we ought to have a trillion

dollars in a jobs program right now. where are we going to get the money except to go to china and borrow that trillion dollars and add it to the deficit and debt. the president is in a very, very deep, tight box right now. >> the president of course has his big address on thursday night. in a speech on jobs yesterday, he urged parties to work together on his upcoming jobs plan which we know very little about at this point, but said democrats, "won't be waiting around for republicans if they don't." >> we're going to see if we got some straight shooters in congress. we're going to see if congressional republicans will put country before party. we'll give them a plan and we'll say do you want to create jobs and put our construction workers back to work rebuilding america. do you want to help our company succeed? open up new markets for them to sell their products. you want -- you say you're the party of tax cuts, well then prove you'll fight just as hard

for tax cuts for middle class families as you do for oil companies and the most affluent americans. >> the backdrop for this president and congress, a new nbc news "wall street journal" poll says the president's approval at just 44%, 51% disapproving. that's the highest disapproval rating in the poll recorded for the president. his job rating on the economy is also at an all time low with only 37% of those polled approving. congress' approval rating is even worse though. >> i'm sure they're doing better. >> 13%, is that bad? >> yeah. 13% approve of their work, 82% disapproving. the 82% disapproval is the highest ever recorded in the history of the nbc news "wall street journal" poll. >> pat, like most of us, i have been skeptical in the past about the possibility of an independent candidate running and winning the presidency.

i am no longer skeptical. the right person with the right money should be able to drive a mack truck through the hole that is opening, not in the ideological center of america, but really just running against both parties, running against washington. i think we've gotten to a point where it's actually a non-ideological battle. >> i think we're reaching something. jerry brown made it, maybe a crisis of the regime itself not simply the economy, because the lack of confidence, but when you take a look at this third party thing which i have done once and p perod did successfully. he's going to vote for barack obama because he is their guy. a republican nominee who is fresh, he's going to get 40%. i don't know where a third party candidate a, creates a party, gets on 50 state ballots and

then goes and wins the national election. i don't know why you wouldn't go with a mitt romney or even perry if they get the republican nomination and again the democratic party is loyal to president obama. 70% of the country still likes the guy. >> john heilemann, you agree? >> the hurdles are very hard. >> let's say you had all 50 states and all the money you needed. >> i think the hurdles are hard fort reason pat says. there's a lot of partisan idea in the country. you see it working to about 30%. with the right amount of money targeted in the right states, if you got the right 30% of the vote, you could be a player, but it's very, very narrow needle to thread. you're not going to see a third party candidate get 45% of the vote in our country. >> you agree, steve? >> i do. i happen to have dinner with america's favorite mayer, and he says -- >> rahm emanuel?

>> yes. and the data doesn't support it. you've got all this math. even if you were to get that 30%, you probably throw the election to the house where you have no possibility whatsoever of emerging. >> coming up next, editor of the nation, katrina vanden heuvel and irshad manji will be here. and finance over europe's debt crisis. we're going to check on the futures live to new york stock exchange. let's get to the weather with meteorologist todd santos with a check of the forecast? >> thanks, good morning. quick update on hurricane katia. it's a major hurricane, category 3, 125 miles per hour sustained winds. moving at 10 miles per hour. likely to make the recurve as it approaches the coastline. thursday morning, you still have a substantial system pointed towards the carolinas. should we accelerate, weaken over the next couple of days, we'll see increasing pipes for

the pro going on in rhode island. those waves are getting up to eight feet. starting to build there. heavy showers across a good portion of the mid atlantic. that will have travel implications. potential for flooding and flash flood watches. warnings in red. want to mention the tornado watch until 2:00 p.m. eastern edge of the united states. "morning joe" coming up next. [ male announcer ] the new dodge durango has adaptive cruise control. it has a radar sensor in the bumper -- radar that detects the distance between you and the vehicle ahead and manages that distance automatically. it also allows you to say to people, "dude, my car has radar," which, in these competitive times, is kind of a game-changer. the s.u.v. is back. right now, get $2,000 cash allowance or 0% apr financing on the 2011 dodge durango.

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♪ >> cross the country from here in ohio to wisconsin, to

florida, they're reopening fights we naught we settled 50 years ago. >> it's about the dignity of average hard-working americans. it's about respect. it's about, above all, basic fairness. stand up now. be counted. repeal these laws governors pass and ladies and gentlemen, vote! vote your values! >> 23 past the hour. joining us now, editor and publisher of "the nation magazine" katrina vanden heuvel is here. >> this is big. >> how was your labor day weekend? >> i'm hanging in there. >> what do people who work for the nation do? what do you and steve do on labor day weekend. >> john nickels our correspondent in madison, wisconsin. >> the heart beat of the labor movement for the left. >> he was there with rockers like tom morello.

they brought out thousands of people in the squares and they're heading into michigan, going to ohio this is big. it's talking about what joe biden said, workers of america and fairness. >> so many times, katrina, i wish i was a leftist, you get the best musicians, actors, best parties. you don't have any rage guitarists playing for right wingers. >> you do, but, joe, it's not about being a leftist, it's about standing the core foundational principles of this country. >> reach on, sister. i feel it. i'm serious. >> you've been doing a mix here of 9/11, you've been talking. i wrote a column in "the washington post" published today. >> great column. >> it's about stop bashing government workers. remember the hours and days

after 9/11, there was a sense of respect for public servants, those who rushed into the towers, the first responders, police, fire, rescue workers. that sense of solidarity was quickly shattered, but it is something we need to retrieve today, i think, to be a better america. >> you brought up an interesting number here. you said if you look at the job numbers that we're actually adding in the private sector but losing in the public sector. >> yes. this is a fundamental problem that i think has lied to many people. the stimulus everyone spaces was too small. one of the reasons was you didn't factor in the loss, the hemorrhaging of jobs at the state and local level which essentially became a wash. when president obama comes out, hoping he comes out and gives them hell, i think the time for kumbaya politics is over. you got to address the hemorrhaging of jobs at the state and local level. you need to boost demand.

when you lose a job in the public sector, you're hurting the private sector too, because you're losing those consumers. >> yeah. i remember katrina, back when the stimulus got passed, any number of republicans were saying jobs don't count, as if the wpa, for instance, that was actually employment. it's the craziest thing on earth. these are people who go to work and work hard every day and they're earning money and providing valuable services. >> and part of our economy and part of the fabric of our life. i write also about teachers. there's been a bashing of teachers. >> what is that about? >> define bashing of teachers, because there are a lot of people that have teachers in their families that say -- a lot of teachers are doing extraordinary work, yet we have a system that doesn't reward success. doesn't punish failure. is that bashing teachers to just

say let's reward the great ones and hold the ones that aren't say great accountable? >> here's the problem, to isolate teachers as the cause of the problems we have with our education system seems to be unfair. there are a lot of factors that go into it. i think -- here's the larger problem. a lot of all this talk is a proxy for government. you're going to hear president obama on thursday talk, i hope in bold ways, about the need for government to play a role in people's lives. listen, i also write that there's no question people feel alienated from government, because look, i'm going to do something shocking and agree with sarah palin, though i think she's all swag and no whatever, because when she talks about crony capitalism, there is something real about that, the government is stacked against workers in favorite of corporate elites and others. we need to restore and recapture government on behalf of the

people, not of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%. but of the people, by the people, for the people. i think it's time to really think hard about this -- we sit around and talking about jimmy hoffa. with all due respect, you gave nine minutes to his language this morning. i would love to see nine minutes on the lives of those in the teamsters union and how they're faring in this moment of economic pain. >> you stop. >> you said eight to nine minutes. someone said that. >> the thing is though, we, i think honestly, if sarah palin had said that, a lot of people would -- >> we've given scores of minutes to when republicans say irresponsible things like that. >> we were making a point. >> fair enough. to be honest. i think there is a war under way in this country. the language about take out and all of that, you know -- >> we got to take them out. >> i think to fix on that

elevates it to a higher place. >> old on, katrina, listen. i got to tell you. part of the reason we did that, we made a conscious decision to talk about it off the top. we focus so much on what sarah palin said when she had the target. michele bachmann and i repeated it ad nauseam, when she said minnesotans should be armed and dangerous on the health care. it's irresponsible language. when i take my own side on, of course i get hammered. i like jim hoffa. i've worked with him before. i said i got a soft spot for the teamsters. we can't have that language on either side. union people, working people believe there has been a war. >> there has been a war. >> you can say that there's been a political war against us. you have to be careful with that rhetoric. >> i also think, to be honest, it's actions too that are very dangerous, but to start limiting speech, i'm not even going to equate it, but i go back to

9/11, when ari fleisher, i can't believe we're going to have rumsfeld, fleisher and mukuasi reflections. ari fleisher -- >> i believe in free speech. >> you said you don't want to hear that. >> ari fleisher saying to bill maher in the days after 9/11, you better watch what you say, remember that quote? you better watch what you say. i think we have seen and george packer was talking about that, the failure of so many of the establishment institutions in our country and the undermining of the very freedoms we proclaim to uphold in the name of a war on terror. somewhere in there, i'm trying to say we got to be very careful about policing speech. we need to have -- >> speech from the right,

non-stop. >> i wrote a column for "the washington post" and the nation also about sarah palin and the crosshairs. the point -- >> you thought they were fine. >> no i thought there was something dangerous there. >> it's horrible. i'm afraid if you police speech -- >> i really think the balance between security and liberty and liberty being free speech has been shifted in the wrong direction in this country in the last ten years. >> speaking of civil speech, pat buchanan. >> i want to ask my friend katrina about government workers. i grew up in d.c., katrina. d.c., federal employees now make twice as much on average as the average american. d.c.'s unemployment level is 5 or 6%. fairfax and montgomery county, two of the richest counties in the united states. we have twice as many government workers in america as manufacturing workers. country can't go on like that, katrina. >> you're talking about a race to the bottom. i'm talking about a race to the top. we should have more manufacturing workers.

we should have more workers in the private sector. why take down government workers and why not lift all. all boats should be lifted, pat. i think the inequality in this country is an inequality that needs to be addressed in the total sense because this country is not broke. it is the debate and the establishment consensus in this country about the economy is broke. what you just said to me is a broken idea that we need to bring down government workers in order to lift up the economy. we need to boost demand. >> it's too big, katrina. >> what's too big? >> the government is too large. it's gotten gigantic. it's why europe is going under. it's why the united states is going under. >> it's all that defense contracting. >> what is not too big is the tax burden of the very richest in the country is the lowest it's been in maybe eight decades, pat. i think we need a radical,

rethinking, reshifting of this country. crony capitalism is not what america should be about. >> you want the government -- >> i think you need both lifted up. work hand in hand. >> as we end this segment, we're not going to solve this here, let's get you two kids together. >> i'm not the kid. >> we had katrina reach out and support your candidate, sarah palin, agreeing with the crony capitalism comment. pat buchanan, let's reach out and hold each other's hands here. do you agree with katrina, that there is a crony capitalism that americans don't trust. >> i certainly do. i also think new york and wall street and all of them were bailed out at the expense of middle america. >> there you go. >> they are together. willie geist? >> that's a great moment. >> we're going to give public

workers their due. >> thanks for coming on the show. >> how's steven doing? can we get him on the show. >> fine. he works until 5:00 a.m. >> he's an overnight. >> we're going to go to russia. >> what's the future of islam in america in a post bin laden world. we're going to talk to irshad manji next on "morning joe."

>> all right, guys. i have to figure out how to get you all thinking straight here. joining us now -- we need to have a talk about food. >> joining us right now. >> i'm going to write a book. >> joining us now, the director -- >> we have somebody who has written a book. why do you have to write a book? >> the director of "the moral courage project" irshad manji, the author of the new book, allah, liberty and love. we're glad to have you back on. it's great to have. >> you thank you. i'll bring the food book next time. >> i'm going to write one. me and my friend diane smith. >> i'll be the tester of the recipes. >> there will be an action plan in the book. let's talk about yours. you have written a book before. you are very outspoken on these

issues. what was the impetus for this one? >> the trouble with islam today took me on a tour of the world more than once. i had encountered so many muslims that said we get it. there needs to be a reconciliation of faith and freedom but show us how. how do we cope with the dishonoring of our families if we speak our truth? how do we deal with the backlash from our communities? it's interesting. the reality checks that i encountered on this global whirlwind that started as a book tour motivated the new book. it's for both muslims and non-muslims. >> since you wrote your last book, a lot of things have changed in the middle east. >> yeah. >> a lot of young arabs, young muslims have turned their back on jihad and said people power, so to speak. that's a step in the right direction? >> i think it is, joe.

of course it's premature to say how it's all going to turn out. american democracy has taken 200 plus years to get to this point. look where we are now. but having said that, i was in cairo in 2005. i tell this story in the book where i was in the middle of a massive demonstration against mubarak's authorize tar i don't knowism and corruption. hand hung out with people at a cafe. people said irshad, i recognize you from your international interviews and i have to ask you a question. i have fallen in love with a jewish guy. you know, here i am putting my life on the line to fight for reform in egypt, but i'm even more scared about telling my parents that i want to marry a jew. what advice can you give me? i tell this story, joe, because i think that this is emblem attic of the deeper motivation, not just for political reform but for reform within their

personal lives, in their own families. that's why i call the book the courage to reconcile faith and freedom. for this young woman, it was all about allah, liberty, hers and others, and love. >> how does she do it? >> well, you know, over the years -- >> lied to her parents. >> no. >> it's a question so many people face. >> absolutely right. we live in an era of mass migration. hundreds of thousands of muslims live in the west, either because they're born there and migrating for jobs. they're falling in love with non-muslims. that's a brilliant strategy, inter-faith love, when i got bombarded with questions like that, i got a liberal imam in america to reinterpret the versus of the koran that have been used to stop women in particular from marrying outside the faith. i posted his blessing of interfaith marriage on my web

set in english. it became such a popular download that in six months i had to get it translated in 20 more languages. >> that's incredible. >> that's the hope i'm talking about. it won't make the front pages of any of the newspapers, but just because we won't be reading about it in these major newspapers does not mean it's not taking place. >> unfortunately, a lot of americans introduction to islam came ten years ago this sunday on september 11th. how do you think the perception of islam has changed over the last decade from that terrible explosive day to ten years later. >> i think willie, there is far more confusion than there is clarity. that's why i want to give guidance in this new book. i'll say something else. to me it's the most dangerous four-letter f word in the english language. that word is fear. i see among broad hearted americans, non-muslim, fear

about asking questions of muslims in islam because they're afraid of being judged as bigots for doing so. i see among liberal muslims like myself fear of going on the record about our views because we fear either being called traitors by islam supremacists or terrorists in waiting by islam bashers. there are layers of fright all over the place. frankly i think the next ten years need to be about reconciliation but not just between muslims and non-muslims. also between honesty and conversation. if we can't have honest conversations in which you guys are allowed as non-muslims to raise uncomfortable questions, we're never going to get to the root of what it takes to reconcile. >> irshad manji. thank you very much. the book is called "allah, liberty and love." you would be an expert on that in so many ways. >> there's a chie tea recipe in the back of the book. we come full circle to food.

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♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe." a shot of new york city. let's go to wall street and talk to cnbc simon hobbs. he's live at the new york stock exchange. >> good morning. >> they are getting slaughtered in europe. how is that going to bode for the u.s. today? >> we're going to hope in 42 minutes. i'm looking at the futures fall away. we're looking at a fall of 270 points at the open. as you so rightly say, yesterday when we were shut down as a market, europe was trading. it's all about the growth. we're not going to get decent growth. you saw it with the employment report on friday. if we don't get growth in europe, that undermines a lot of hope that the peripheral countries could escape their debt burdens. therefore if they can't so

easily do that, it calls into question the solvency of the banks. the banks were hit hard yesterday in europe. the deutsch bank lost a third of its capitalization in one month. it's rebounding here. it's unusual for the u.s. to pick up what's happened in europe full throttle. i think we're going to get that at the open today. >> so 200 off the top. and there's no earnings reports coming out? there's nothing that would act as a safety net, is there? >> what we're already looking forward to now is as you see mentioned many times on the program, obama's speech on thursday, what exactly he can bring forward to stimulate the economy and to perhaps reassure the markets, and you'll be aware, there's a huge debate raging about what we need to do about the economy. the other thing i would mention is the european central bank has american investors hope they

indicate they're about to slash rates in europe, though i'm not sure that's necessarily what they'll do. >> all right. thank you so much. >> simon hobbs, thank you. >> it's going to be a rough day on wall street today. >> and rainy. seriously? does this city need more rain? do any of them? tim pawlenty, tom brokaw and nfl hall-of-famer emmitt smith will be here. more "morning joe" in just a moment. i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here -- to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me so that i can work one-on-one with you. it's your green line. but i'll be there every step of the way.

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>> breaking into a little sports. how about that? catch up on some baseball. >> how are the red sox? >> i love the red sox. >> they're having a great season. >> they are in the division of the best team of baseball. phillies and braves, two best leagues. top of the fifth. phillies up five runs. gonzalez fouls the ball off. look at the grab by howard. sliding to avoid the wall. reaches back and makes the catch. phillies beat the reds. cliff lee does it again. complete game, five hit shutout. philadelphia has an eight and a

half game lead over the braves. yankees at home against the orioles, opening up a lead on the red sox. slugfe slugfest. by the end of the third it was 8-7 yankees. jesus montero broke a tie in the sixth inning with his first major league home run. solo shot to right. comes out for a curtain call. >> good one. >> he is not done. next inning he does it again. two run home run. yankees beat the orioles 11-10. the red sox trying to keep up with the yankees. >> he looked lost at the plate in his first couple of appearances. he's a quick learner. >> josh beckett for the red sox yesterday. looks like he tweaked his ankle. they hope it's not anything serious. sprained ankle right now. no further word on the severity. >> if he can't pitch -- is it

his right or left. >> it's his right. it's his push-off ankle. the game was scoreless. walk-off home run for the jays. yankees two and a half games up. >> if he goes down, their only chance in the playoffs will be five days of rain. five more days of rain. >> we'll be back. we have the forecast, i'm todd santos. look at the heavy shield of rain moving across the mid atlantic. northeast as well. the low itself down through north georgia. as that tracks north, you can see severe weather firing up through portions of the carolinas. new york through d.c., philly as well. atlanta, dallas to chicago, looking pretty good. not yet, thanks for reminding me. wait, what? fret not ma'lady. i have the hotels.com app so we can get a

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what do you mean? anyway, willie, as always, i've learned so much from this show. >> i feel bad for you, willie. >> it's a cornucopia of knowledge. >> are you okay, honey? >> i'm broken. >> how's your ass? >> it's broken. you have a broken ass. >> stop. stop it. >> battle of the bands. mitt romney jobs speech today, president thursday. nothing happening in the end. it will be great. >> what have you learned? >> micah brzezinski. >> what have you learned? >> i learn anybody who thinks perry can't win should probably talk to that coyote. >> all right, pat buchanan. >> i -- >> you know what, i give up. if you want to nominate a guy that's going who lose,